Musicality and dancing to the MUSIC.

[Inventfmc]

Before I really say anything, I'm going to put up two clips. I dance to the same song in both of these clips.
I want you guys to tell me which you think is better, and WHY.

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<object height="318" width="425"> <param name="movie" value="http://e.dancejam.com/v1/Cb2TTexw" /> <embed height="318" src="http://e.dancejam.com/v1/Cb2TTexw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425"> </embed> </object> <br /> <div>Watch <a href="http://dancejam.com/dances/popping">Popping</a> videos and <a href="http://dancejam.com/">dance lessons</a> at DanceJam.com</div>

After some comments I'll get crackin to the heart of what I feel is the biggest issue today in popping.

[MikeyP]

i know the answer to this. so i'll shut up

theres a difference in being "on beat" and having "musicality" one does not equal the other.

[ceech]

definitely appreciate you for sharing your clips.

i don't think there is a right answer to this one. everyone has their own preference and i think this exercise is great coz it really make you think why you would prefer one more than the other.

so here are my thoughts. i've always said this and i'm gonna say it again. dance on beat. pop on beat. second clip, it was more on beat. thus, i prefer the second clip. and i'm not sure if this is what invent is trying to demonstrate the difference but i know sometimes youtube and dancejam or other internet video host server will have an audio video sync issue. there were times in the second clip where it looks off beat as well. again, might be due to the audio video sync issue.

and the topic of "musicality" is so important. i want to ask y'all to define what this means. explain what this means to someone who has no idea what dancing is. if your answer that one clip has more musicality than the other, you have to first really understand what the word "musicality" really means so you'll know what you're looking for. Again, i want to thank invent and Mikeyp for bringing this word up and helping everyone here get a better understand.

[idennisinfante]

nice.


yeah i think one way to describe musicality is to compare it to interpretation. Similar to language translation. Interpret what you hear, but through movement/dance, so that one can see what you are trying to say (or dance). So I guess musicality is just how well you interpret the song you are dancing to. (i just said the same **** over and over hahha)

In terms of the dancing/movement part of musicality, someone may know the song and can dance to all parts of the song, but that may not mean they have musicality. it just means they know the song.

When someone with good musicality hears a song, they can dance to it but their movement goes with the song better. All songs have different components to it, like how the mood is (hype, or chill, etc), or the rhythm of the beat (for example a 4/4 or something very polyrhythmic). Musicality is about what kind of movement you do to those certain components. Would you do a freeze to a part of the song where the sound has no beat, but drags (like a sexy saxophone? yes, a sexy one lol). Or would you do a move that also drags like slow-motion or whatever? It's really up to you. But to me, the person with better musicality would go the slow-mo route because it makes more sense and is more connected to the song.

People with good musicality are also able to dance well to music they are hearing even for the first time because they are not relying on knowing the song, but connecting with the feeling of the song.

sorry for rambling

[MikeyP]

definitely appreciate you for sharing your clips.

i don't think there is a right answer to this one. everyone has their own preference and i think this exercise is great coz it really make you think why you would prefer one more than the other.

so here are my thoughts. i've always said this and i'm gonna say it again. dance on beat. pop on beat. second clip, it was more on beat. thus, i prefer the second clip. and i'm not sure if this is what invent is trying to demonstrate the difference but i know sometimes youtube and dancejam or other internet video host server will have an audio video sync issue. there were times in the second clip where it looks off beat as well. again, might be due to the audio video sync issue.

and the topic of "musicality" is so important. i want to ask y'all to define what this means. explain what this means to someone who has no idea what dancing is. if your answer that one clip has more musicality than the other, you have to first really understand what the word "musicality" really means so you'll know what you're looking for. Again, i want to thank invent and Mikeyp for bringing this word up and helping everyone here get a better understand.

dope. thanks for jumping in ceech.

i think the easiest way to show musicality is through examples. I.E. clips.

dancing on beat is the name of the game, but there is a level ABOVE just solely being on beat. Every song has its feel, tone, personality, and emotion to it. Bringing that out in the dance, thats musicality, that is interpreting the music in your own way, not just following the script (beat only).

Here are 2 examples i posted already that i think are excellent musicality.

First of all ( i am bias) is my girl casie freestyling to this hip hop song.
Notice the song, what is it about? how is she showing you what it is about? and how are her movements letting you know how she feels about it? It was a cathartic clip for her. she was letting a lot go.

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another great clip is Frantik. I think this was a chorio'd piece, but the song is about someone dieing and getting their last rights. Keep that in mind when you watch it, his movements are the perfect feel for the music.

about 3 minutes in:
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I dont want to provide clips of people who are not demoing good musicality, cause really i don't want to call out anyone who i have or have not met.

the 2 i provided are good enough to get my point across i think.

and dennis is right on the money

[Inventfmc]

There is a distinct difference that I am looking at between those clips I posted up.

The idea is that in the first one, I am dancing to THE BEAT.
(there were other intentions when I made that clip, I was actually slightly off beat because the second I posted was the first I made and someone on another forum said they felt I was off beat, wasn't dancing and flowed with the music... then upon making the second clip which is the first here, they commended me on my dancing in that one...)

Since I made a long digression, I'll reiterate: First clip i was "dancing" to the BEAT.
The beat is empty. It's only meaning is to keep the music at a steady pace. There does not need to be a bass kick and a snare (clap) for there to be a beat. The beat is the pulse of the music.
Funk music has a beat.
Polka has a beat.
Classical has a beat.
Gregorian chant... well.. that's a little looser, but it has a beat.

My point is, there are a lot of people who ONLY match their movements to the beat (hitting all 4 counts of a measure), and then at the end of every 16 or 32, they pause, then stray from the beat to one of the musical elements (or even only a drum fill) and then they go right back to the beat.
This to me is not dancing to the fullest. It's boring. It's predictable. It lacks knowledge and passion.

NOW Dancing to the music, is what I did in the second clip.
I have a foundational theory that is my own (with the help of a few influences) that the hit is meant to truely accent the clap. That is the 2 and 4 of every measure. (Btw- I categorize between pops and hits). When you hit all 4 beats, you have no time for movement. You have on average 120 beats per minute in the music we dance to, that means you hit 120 times and reposition your body in 120 different ways in a minute... that is, TWICE per second. That is ALOT of movement and information without true depth and meaning.

If you only hit the 2 and 4, you hit 60 times per minute... you have 60 repostionings in 60 seconds... which is still a lot...
If you vary which claps you HIT... you can lessen that... 45 per minute...
So what is happening in between these hits?

I have always told my students that the main foundation to popping is hits and angles. An angle is an end position. A hit is an emphasis on the beat. So what happens when you are moving from one angle to another and in between hits? THE DANCING OCCURS.

When you continuously hit only the 2 and 4, your movement becomes less restricted (because you are no longer putting out useless movement). Your movement at that point can begin to MATCH THE MUSIC.
Your arms can lengthen with a horn note, your feet can shuffle with a piano, your torso can undulate with a violin, your whole body and flow silky smooth with the singer... all while you keep time (keep the beat) with your hits.

The beat in music can be likened to the beating of a heart. It's something we know is there, its something we can feel, but it's working behind the scenes. The beat in the music should be the same way.

Most people think about hitting as an external factor... think of it as an INTERNAL factor. It's the internal rhythm, the internal time keeper... you shouldn't have to think about your hitting... it should be automatic so that your whole body can be freed up to use ALL of the elements of the music.

Watch my second clip again... and again and again... watch it very closely... from the beginning until 1:10 left... there is not a single moment where I am focused on the beat. I kid you not (and it even surprises me) EVERY MOVEMENT GOES WITH SOMETHING IN THE MUSIC. The lyrics, the instrumentals... I used every little bit in my movements... Maybe you guys should just listen to that song and get familiar with it.
By the way I danced to this song on the 3rd time I listened to it for the second clip so don't give me any "well you knew the music in an out" stuff.

The second clip I posted here is what I want to see poppers doing. I rarely RARELY give poppers props or go bonkers when they get down unless its on some of the stuff I'm talkin about... and then I'm the only one who seems to ever notice it...

While y'all are still lookin at the beat... I'm lookin at the MUSIC.

Like Dennis said we are interpreting the MUSIC with out bodies and translating it into something visual.
It doesn't take much to translate the beat, but it takes A LOT to translate the MUSIC.


Invent

PS- on a side note, from my thread for MikeyP on what I feel is TRUE musicality (written some months back on bboy.org....

"Musicality has to do with listening to the MUSIC. Not the beats. And then interpreting the music into a rhythm that is displayed through your body.

Music, and leading into musicality, is the horns, the guitar, the piano, the tones of the vocals... etc. It's being able to hear all of those at one time and selecting which one you want to move to. Then it's also using combinations of those rhythms to create new rhythms and really a new "body music" to express the visual movement of the song. (It's easy to say "how does a song move?" but its another to put it into movement). That's why I say (and I recently found out Rennie Harris uses a similar analogy) that when you are popping (or doing hip-hop/house/freestyle, etc) then its like you're a jazz musician, you have freedom to do whatever you want within the limitations of the music, but those limitations are few, so you can create a whole new part of the song with your body and your dance movements."

That is my definition of musicality. It involves dancing to the music as a whole, not just the beat then moving to the music sometimes. AGAIN: THE BEAT IS NOT THE MUSIC!!!