East Vs West Coast Dance Scenes.

[MikeyP]

Hey guys, Ceech asked me to post up my thoughts on this subject being that i've been deep in both.

Honestly nowadays there is very little difference as far as a STYLE. Like, east coast popping vs west coast popping. There are still the fringe styles, like Flexing in NYC or TURFIN' here in the bay. But what we widely consider to be popping or locking is starting to look fairly similar around the US. I contribute that to youtube. But thats not really what we're talking about here.

The main difference i see is the mentality of dancers. In the East someting that exists between the groovmekanex and DSP in the bay woudlnt' work. We'd probably be rivals instead of co-workers, in a sense. The east seems to be much more competitive with itself. alota **** talking goes on, and thats kinda just par for the course. I mean, when i moved out here i talked alota noise, then i was quickly checked by my crew that that is not how its done out here. Everyone out in the west just gets down. dosn't matter if ur a bboy or whatever, just come get down. That mentality is so much more welcoming to development and newcomers. The east has a twist on that as well.

When i was a beginner dancer in Philadelphia I would throw myself in circles and then get pushed out for not being good enough. Also props and advice were not easy to come by. I asked my teachers (LPC at the time) about why this is. The answer was simple: Its a weeding out process. If you can get through all that and still keep coming, we'll know you want it. IN an environment like that i worked so hard to just be accepted and have a place to dance. When props and accolades were given, it meant something. They were not easy to get, as i said. In the west i noticed there is NONE of that. Everyone just jams and its no big deal how good you are. People encourage no matter your level. honesty I'm glad how i was brought up in the east, it solidified my desire to learn the dance, and become accepted in the scene. You had to fight for every inch of dance space and respect. Once you got it, it made it so much sweeter.

Although this is what i experienced in Philly. NYC and Baltimore were different breeds. But all pretty much around the same as i said, Philly was an extreme in that sense. Alot of the reason why i got down with people in Baltimore and NYC predominantly.

Thats all i got in my head right now. Lets get a discussion started on this.

-P out

[ceech]

thanx for breaking it down mikeP. i do see a lot of bboying mentality going on here in the bay area as well. before getting schooled by pop'in pete and skeeter rabbit. the dance culture here was also very much like what you describe. a lot of bboying mentality, which to me mean, battling someone. and the way they battle would be to piss on someone or shot someone with a gun or grenade or whatever. to clown someone and make your opponent feel stupid so that you can win.

pop'in pete and skeeter rabbit really schooled me on the west coast funk style culture. they told me stories about the west coast relay. how each region would bring different styles. don't get me wrong, west coast ain't soft either. you still gotta be good to earn your stipes. but it's not about putting others down. it's about showing what you got and still try to out do your opponent. skeet would say, we don't use the word battle. they said say, "do you get down?" or "let me see you get down?" it's about out dancing your opponent with your skills. and if you are beat, you better practice your dance skills so you next you'll be better. and not practice how to make your opponent feel stupid so you can look good.

anyways, i really took what pete and skeet taught me to heart. i believe they've not only made me a better dancer, but a better person coz of their philosophy.

[MikeyP]

Do you feel like there is less of a differentiation between styles per region. like, west coast style vs east coast?

U think that still exists?

[ceech]

does difference still exist ?

most definitely. very region is gonna have their own flava. west, north, south, east. that's what's great coz then we can all share with each other.

Do you feel like there is less of a differentiation between styles per region. like, west coast style vs east coast?

I believe as good teachers travel more and teach more. Students from all over world that are lucky enough to learn from good teachers will learn the same philosophy. When more people have the same philosophy, i think naturally, the differences will lessen, and it will lessen in a good way.

We gotta keep in mind there are two type differences we're talking about. There's is difference in philosophy. And there's is differences in dance styles and dance flava.

I wanna see that people have the philosophy or making this dance culture better and build the foundation so that it's strong and our dance culture will last forever. The philosophy of belittling another dancer and putting down other dance styles is not one that I favor.

If I meet a new dancer in a cirlce at an event or a club or wherever, and we get down. If I choose the philosophy of building a better dance culture, I will make a new friend. If I choose the negative destructive philosophy, it doesn't matter if I win the battle or loose the battle because I just created an enemy. And if I won that battle, that person will practice hard and next time, he mite wanna come back revenge.

Anyways, the right philosophy is my foundation.

[MikeyP]

Droppin the good **** as usual.

I ask because i have been hearing murmurs in the hallway about less flavas being tossed around nowadays because of youtube and the fact that we can instantly look into any region or country's take on what we choose to do. Therefor creating a more homoginous interpritation of the dance.

[Switch Step]

Well for me, I have seen this bboyish mentality coming from the Central Valley in CA, where it was a majority of bboys and being able to count the number of poppers on one hand. As a dancer it was definitely difficult to try to break into the scene because there were dancers, but none of them were into the style I was doing, and the few poppers that were there had the mentality where the one that's better is the one with the better disses and crowd tricks I guess. This was apparent when technique was not so much an important factor at all, just had creative can I be ripping off some dudes face and waving it in a comedic manner.

After meeting different dancers though like Shake, who is pretty much an OG in my book, and Iron Matt, I didn't think Modesto had any poppers who cared about the dance as a danceform. Then of course moving to the Bay the majority of dancers are concerned more with the dancing aspect of it, and I think because of that the mentality is more open to sessioning with other people and being a bit more friendly.

It's not exactly East to West Coast, but even the small jump from Modesto to the Bay there was a difference in the overall mentality of the dancer.

I agree with MikeyP that being in an environment where you have to really work hard just to get any type of respect was an important factor in solidifying the passion for dancing, but I also feel like it has the ability to turn many people away. I knew a few bboys in Modesto that started as poppers but changed to bboys because the scene was the way it was. O well..

[ceech]

i appreciate you just sharing your experience brutha. the more i find out about how people got started, the more i realize that we are all human. we are all the same.

that's what i love about an online community, i really allows me to connect with different dancers from all over the world so share ideas and often times, we relate well with each other.

i know that majority of the users on any online community simply just don't post or don't register. the analogy for me would be like choosing to watch someone dance versus getting down on the dance floor and experiencing dancing for yourself. it's okay to just be a spectator and it's all good. everyone is ready at their own pace.

i'm remind of the story Don Camplock told about how when he first started dancing. he just like all of us, was extremely shy and unsure about his dance skill. but his friends were very encouraging and have him the confidence to get on the dance floor and just feel the music.

i just want to encourage anyone who is starting to learn to dance to really not be so shy and just ask questions. hopefully, our website here can give you the boost of confidence to start your dance goals.

[MikeyP]

I"m gonna keep this thread going. Good stuff in here.

From what i've been noticing its not so much east vs west anymore. now its US vs everywhere else. I see less of a rivalry between east and west now than what i saw in the past. Its still there, but just not as much. People have started turning their attention to a global scale.

I bring this up because of a recent convo i had with Scramblelock. He's on the circuit now touring the world battlign and locking, and (to my joy) Taking Fire from Lockism with him as his partner. I've been gassing up Fire (hah) for a while now and maybe ya'll will be able to see what i'm on about. But the conversation rotated around how come the US isn't going out as much to find the big events as the rest of the world? Is it a mindset that we think they should come to us being that we originated the dances? Is it because our government dosn't support dancers like France or Korea does? We are showing ourselves on a global scale MORE than we did a few years ago. but still not as much as some countries.

Discuss....

[Funky Robotnick]

I'd like to put some input on this issue, as I have traveled around a little (both nationally and internationally). Unfortunately my knowledge is limited to culture only, and not do dance since I didn't really represent during my travels. But it seems to me like the culture of the dance is indicative of the culture specific to the area.

For example, New Yorkers are know for that "in your face" "f you" attitude-- and is also the birth place of b-boying and hip hop. So I think that is reflected in the battle mentality.

Here in the bay area, people are pretty open minded and chill, which brings us to the point Mikey P was making in his post about GM and DSP being "co-workers" as opposed to rivals. Dancers in the bay generally chose to be cool with each other, and keep the sh** talking to a minimum. Im not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think its as common as other areas of the US.

Ok, so that's more of a passing observation than anything else, but maybe some one with more experience with dancers can call me out and tell me if its right or wrong (come on, don't be so west coast haha). Im sure Im simplifying and there's a lot more to it, such as trends in music and demographic of the people dancing. Anyways I'd like to hear what other people have to say about this.

[MikeyP]

I'd like to put some input on this issue, as I have traveled around a little (both nationally and internationally). Unfortunately my knowledge is limited to culture only, and not do dance since I didn't really represent during my travels. But it seems to me like the culture of the dance is indicative of the culture specific to the area.

For example, New Yorkers are know for that "in your face" "f you" attitude-- and is also the birth place of b-boying and hip hop. So I think that is reflected in the battle mentality.

Here in the bay area, people are pretty open minded and chill, which brings us to the point Mikey P was making in his post about GM and DSP being "co-workers" as opposed to rivals. Dancers in the bay generally chose to be cool with each other, and keep the sh** talking to a minimum. Im not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think its as common as other areas of the US.

Ok, so that's more of a passing observation than anything else, but maybe some one with more experience with dancers can call me out and tell me if its right or wrong (come on, don't be so west coast haha). Im sure Im simplifying and there's a lot more to it, such as trends in music and demographic of the people dancing. Anyways I'd like to hear what other people have to say about this.

Reviving:

just to go off of what you said about Bay Area dancers keeping the **** talking to a minimum. Oh **** talking still goes on for sure. However i believe that the bay area dancers believe in a status quo or are more politically minded. By that i mean that i have seen bay area dancers talk **** to someone then be cool to their face, i see that alot. And thats fine, you want to keep the positivity open and not feed the troll of online politics. Like i posted before, i'm used to people telling me flat out if i'm hot or not. When i moved out here it surprised me that everyone (no matter of skill) got props for going out. To each his own. As long as there is competition, and egos, **** talking will exist regardless or region.

But i'm thinking in a locking mindset. Which is aggressively positive. As opposed to the popping or bboying community, the locking community has its base in positivity and bringing each other up. So much so that my first teachers said "lockers dont battle, they just trade off and jam." (i dont believe that, i ****ing BATTEL ahha) Lockers tend to squash beef before it starts. Instead of popping or bboying where the better dancers people look up to talk mad ****. which makes the youth think that its ok, lead by example right? Instead, the well respected lockers are squashing beef constantly and promoting a positive dance scene for other lockers.

this was a huge reason why i picked up locking. This spans coasts.:D

[SantaCruzIce]

This is a really cool conversation and topic. I have enjoyed very much reading everyone's opinions. I'm pumped to become a part of this community (whether or not I have enough swag yet, ya feel me?)

[The2euceofSpades]

I too would like to add my 2 cents...

As a lion dancer, the history of lion dancing goes that Kung Fu Masters would breed these teams as ways of showing supremecy. In one sense, Kung Fu Masters would create these lion dancing troupes as dance crews, and would face off with other Kung Fu students to establish the dominant style and dominant master of a particular city. If a new Kung Fu master decided to take up residence in a new town, one would argue that, if he wanted to teach students, he had better show his lion dancing skills to the public and other Kung Fu masters in order to establish his legitamacy as a Martial Artist. In the martial arts and lion dancing world, my Si Gung told me "lion dancing is the way you are remembered", and so that really enforces the essence of practicing, and establishing yourself.

In a modern day equivalent, Lion Dancing groups are essentially like bboy crews or dance groups that battle each other, although i will not say that the lion dancing world is like this today. But, back then, only the best students could lion dance because it required a very strong martial arts background to compete and fight other lion dancers (they would kick eachother with their feet while protecting themselves with the lion head itself. Another Si Gung of mine said that lion heads were plated with metal for combat and had secret compartments inside for weapons...i need a citation though). But in any case, to be accepted by these fierce combat and martial arts based dancers, you had to really earn your stripes.

As a martial artist and lion dancer today, I testify that earning respect as a lion dancer is much the same as you would earn respect from other bboys, poppers, lockers, etc. When i first joined my own group, i was more than certain everyone was waiting for me to fail. They wouldnt pay attention to me, and would kind of brush me off. I taught myself the majority of the drumming rhythms for lion dancing by myself because nobody would sit down and teach me...but thats the way it was taught. You either had the goods or didnt. You had the rhythm in your ears, or you didnt. You either were a stylish lion dancer, or you werent. These were innate things that even my own Master didnt no cultivate with me, and had to learn by myself. Pretty soon though, i was able to show my group that i was legit by performing with them and began to surpass my peers as a drummer and lion dancer, in some respects. But i will say that because of this process, we have all come to respect one another because 1) we all had been through it, and 2) we all realized we had what it took to be a lion dancer.

Mikey P is right, it is a weeding out process. To find the ones who truly love the artform, you need to find the people who have the stomach to face adversity. If you retreat in the face of a challenge immediately, how can you face other competitors who arent friendly toward you? But i will agree that this type of training and tough love does create a very intimidating image that is not always welcome, and may even discourage talented individuals from pursuing an artform seriously. I must say though, everyone has been very nice to me, so I thank you...seeing that i survived San Francisco's Chinatown, the locking scene is much softer. hahaha! thanks guys!

-Kan

[ceech]

kan,
that's some dope lion dance history there man. can you start another thread just on the history of lion dance ?

[Funky Robotnick]

Lockers tend to squash beef before it starts. Instead of popping or bboying where the better dancers people look up to talk mad ****. which makes the youth think that its ok, lead by example right? Instead, the well respected lockers are squashing beef constantly and promoting a positive dance scene for other lockers.

this was a huge reason why i picked up locking. This spans coasts.:D

Thank god someone can be cool in this day and age. The scene in popping hella put me off when I found the boards online. Who needs all that extra stress? Glad to hear lockers are cool on the east coast too.

On a side note, I was chilling with a popper from florida last weekend, and he was telling me about the scene there. He said if you weren't in their crew, poppers would clown and wouldn't practice with you. He seemed kind of surprised when I invited him to the warf to hang out and do street shows with us. Luckily, he showed up and I was able to bite all his moves :D

[MikeyP]

Thank god someone can be cool in this day and age. The scene in popping hella put me off when I found the boards online. Who needs all that extra stress? Glad to hear lockers are cool on the east coast too.

On a side note, I was chilling with a popper from florida last weekend, and he was telling me about the scene there. He said if you weren't in their crew, poppers would clown and wouldn't practice with you. He seemed kind of surprised when I invited him to the warf to hang out and do street shows with us. Luckily, he showed up and I was able to bite all his moves :D

Yea that seems about right:rolleyes:

[JtWo]

Hmm...well I may not know all of the older scenes...but I do know a LTTLE about the newer scenes

Turfing is a "bay" style. Honestly, In my opinion it just looks like a mix of boogaloo, waving, tutting, and some popping.

Krumping originated in LA where most of its roots came from clowning. People from other areas basically took clowning and made it more aggressive.

Juking...I've seen two forms of juking so i don't know which one is the real form...or there could be two forms of it. Juking originated in chicago where its roots are from the lambada. Its made up of crazy "grinding" or freaking combined with some explosive upper body movements. The 2nd form that i know of is the same upper body movements, but with the chi-town footwork.

Bucking is from the south...and I think it's basically the same thing as turfing...



These are just bits and pieces I've seen and heard from other dancers, I could be wrong.